Curse

Hawkeye · Sep 06, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Golem Master

Color:
Orange

Weapon:
Vortex Gauntlets (Two-Handed 19..35 physical)

When Golem Master attacks with Vortex Gauntlets, the golem's attacks synchronize. No projectiles are released from the Vortex Gauntlets, as if the Golem Master were directly controlled by the movements of the Golem Master. If the Golem Master were hexed with a slow movement hex, the golem too would attack slower and vice versa. On average, the golem will attack 50% slower than a typical hammer warrior making attacks powerful and slow.

Description:
Golem Masters are the bastard children of elementalists. Their ability to control the elements appear at an early age. It is against the general belief of elementalists to create and destroy life, for it is believed that such magic is sacred and reserved for the gods. Outcast for such 'vulgar' use of magic, Golem Masters wander the countryside in search of others who worship magic like a religion rather than a science.

Attributes:
Night Magic - All skills which correspond to this attribute gain more benefit with higher points in Night Magic.

Summon Moon Golem (15 energy, 2 cast, 60 recharge) Summon level 5..26 Moon Golem. You can have only one golem in play. (Night Magic)

Absorb (10 energy, 1 cast, 20 recharge) Golem enchantment. For 4..10 seconds, next time golem is hit, the damage is negated. The next hit caused by golem does +13...25 damage. (Night Magic)

Sacrifice (5 energy, 1/4 cast, 20 recharge) Golem enchantment. For 4..10 seconds, the next time golem is hit, you take the damage instead and you gain 5...15 energy. Damage is reduced by 10...35 in this way. (Night Magic)

Essence of Night (10 energy, 1 cast, 30 recharge) Golem stance. For 10..20 seconds, attacks dealt by golem inflict cold damage and have a 5..30% to blind hit foe for 5 seconds. (Night Magic)

Shroud (15 energy, 1 cast, 45 recharge) Elite golem hex. All enemies near golem are affected with Shroud. For 5..15 seconds, foes with Shroud cannot cast spells and are affected by Blindness. Shroud ends prematurely if foe takes damage. (Night Magic)

Touch of Darkness (0 energy, 1 cast, 60 recharge) Golem enchantment. For 20 seconds, whenever foe is struck by golem, foe gains -1 health degeneration. Whenever foe is struck in this way, you lose 5..2 energy. If foe dies under the effects of Touch of Darkness, a level 5..14 masterless bone minion spawns. (Night Magic)

Day Magic - All skills which correspond to this attribute gain more benefit with higher points in Day Magic.

Summon Sun Golem (15 energy, 2 cast, 60 recharge) Summon level 5..26 Sun Golem. You can have only one golem in play. (Day Magic)

Rebound (10 energy, 1 cast, 20 recharge) Golem enchantment. For 4..10 seconds, next time golem is hit, the damage is doubled. The next hit caused by golem does twice as much damage and knocks down foe for 1 second. (Day Magic)

Intervene (5 energy, 1/4 cast, 20 recharge) Golem enchantment. For 4..10 seconds, the next time you are hit, your golem takes the damage instead and you gain 30...120 life. Damage taken by the golem is reduced by 10...35 in this way. (Day Magic)

Essence of Day (10 energy, 1 cast, 30 recharge) Golem stance. For 10..20 seconds, attacks dealt by golem inflict fire damage and have a 5..30% to set foe on fire for 5 seconds. (Day Magic)

Apollo's Fury (15 energy, 1 cast, 45 recharge) Elite golem hex. All enemies near golem are affected with Apollo's Fury. For 5..15 seconds, foes with Apollo's Fury cannot attack and are affected by Dazed. Apollo's Fury ends prematurely if foe takes damage. (Day Magic)

Titan Stomp (10 energy, 3 cast, 30 recharge) Golem attack. All nearby foes are knocked down for 1 second. Golem has -20 to armor when activating this skill. (Day Magic)

Synchrony - All skills which correspond to this attribute gain more benefit with higher points in Synchrony. For each point in Synchrony, 1% of damage taken by you is instead taken by your golem and vice versa.

Savik's Strike (10 energy, 1/4, 25 recharge) - Attack skill. For 4..10 seconds, the next time your golem strikes a foe, a foe near you takes that same damage. (Synchrony)

Creator's Bond (10 energy, 1 cast, 45 recharge, -1 energy degen) - Elite enchantment. Whenever golem takes damage, you gain life equal to 20...50% of that damage. Whenever you take damage, golem gains life equal to 20...50% of that damage. (Synchrony)

Blink (15 energy, 1/4 cast, 45 recharge) - Spell. You and your golem switch places. (50% chance to fail with Synchrony 4 or less) (Synchrony)

Possess (15 energy, 3 sec cast, 30 recharge, -1 energy) - Elite golem enchantment. While Possess is in effect, you cannot move, attack, or cast spells which are not golem spells. Golem deals an additional +10...30 damage with attacks and moves 10%...50% faster. (Synchrony)

Phoenix Tears · Sep 06, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Imo you don't need to make further...

Something like this will never come imo. Imo not well thought out all yet.

Golems are Monsters, or now the new Robots of the Asura's, but NO Class, what you try to create here sounds more like, as if you wish Golems to be a playable new race oO

Imo only a stupid Elementalist Clone so far and you really ask, what other attributes should it get, when you self name still 2 of the 4 Basic Elements oO lol

You disappoint, U've had much better CC's before this shit here XD
Out of ideas ? Does brainstorming don't help you anymore ?

This is in my eyes only a try how to create a mix class out of elementalist, ranger and hammer warrior oO

Hawkeye · Sep 07, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

It's a melee caster.. a spellcaster that doesn't get close to battle because he has the golem doing it for him. I think this is quite unique in idea. As opposed to creating an army like the necromancer, this would focus on being a warrior as well as a support character for melee in general.

I don't know how you interpretted this class as making 'golems a new playable race.' I seriously can't. I spent a good 5 minutes trying to look for what would have made you think such a thing and found nothing.

And I suppose by Elementalist clone, you're talking about the fact that it uses fire and cold? Does this mean Dervish is an elementalist clone for using earth spells? Since when has using fire or cold spells ever made one a clone of an elementalist? Moreover, since when has an elementalist ever had spells for melee? Oh right, that's like 'warrior', since I suppose anything melee is a warrior clone at this point. And don't forget, I'm from a distance, so that *has* to make me a ranger clone...

If you have anymore critiquing you'd like to share, I don't want to hear it, because most of this hot air comes from the fact that you didn't like my review of your class. So shut it. Anyone with constructive criticism is allowed to speak.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Sep 07, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

It sounds like me Mechanist^^.
Try checking it you might get some ideas anyways I'll be disposing of that CC soon^^.
And Hawkeye, You need to think first what would other people say before posting.
As you can see in what Darkhell and Pheonix have showned that their observations aren't that wise.
So if I were you I would avoid making Elemental Casters CCs.
You need to put a Cloak within you're Ideas^^.
I used Dragons with my Dragoon for Element.
But you use Golems, And some of the skills may alittle be Elementish.
Are you forgetting the Effects?, Domi-Mes can Disable a whole Party leading to the parties demise, Fire-Eles can Nuke all foes and killng them all.
While the Dervish is using Earth and Wind for Buff and Protection but you're has a role of an MM or Beastmaster more of a BM anyways.
The BM uses their Pets as a Weapon and avoiding themselves fromdeath so as if they have a 2nd Sub-Body.
I think this is a Unique Build but the Ranger already hs it but they don't really use this build do they^^.
Actually I love playingg Unique/Exotic builds like Warder, BM, Smiter, AoE Dervish, Healing Dervsh and more^^.
Also check my Sage, Sephiroth and Puppeteer^^.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=23
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...73#post2796273
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10174979
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10177440

I'll be sending you a CC Replica^^.
If you know that I think I already have done one wit one guy ut dunno where he is now^^.

xaleo21 · Sep 08, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

The Asurans make golems too... but their golems don't reach 29...
And them gaunts match hammer dmg.
Still a clean idea...

[M]agna_[C]arta · Sep 08, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Asuras*
just correcting^^.

@Hawkeye
I thnik the Gaunts should be lessened BTW.
Oh BTW the Guardian in the CC Replica I sent you is a Spirit Type Creature^^.

Phoenix Tears · Sep 13, 2007, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

It's a melee caster.. a spellcaster that doesn't get close to battle because he has the golem doing it for him. I think this is quite unique in idea. As opposed to creating an army like the necromancer, this would focus on being a warrior as well as a support character for melee in general.

I don't know how you interpretted this class as making 'golems a new playable race.' I seriously can't. I spent a good 5 minutes trying to look for what would have made you think such a thing and found nothing.

And I suppose by Elementalist clone, you're talking about the fact that it uses fire and cold? Does this mean Dervish is an elementalist clone for using earth spells? Since when has using fire or cold spells ever made one a clone of an elementalist? Moreover, since when has an elementalist ever had spells for melee? Oh right, that's like 'warrior', since I suppose anything melee is a warrior clone at this point. And don't forget, I'm from a distance, so that *has* to make me a ranger clone...

If you have anymore critiquing you'd like to share, I don't want to hear it, because most of this hot air comes from the fact that you didn't like my review of your class. So shut it. Anyone with constructive criticism is allowed to speak.

Lol, you've no clue about, what a nonsense you wrote there about me.
Do you really think, because you didn't liked my Occultist CC or my Rogue CC, regardless which one you meant now exactly, that I'm then not factual against you ? I critisized your Golem Master, because its simple a junk mix class out of features which hold still other existing professions:

Using massivly overpowered Golems as "weapons" and as personal shields > rangers as beastmasters

magic gauntlets, that are so strong then hammers from the warrior,

the elite flesh golem don't even reaches lvl 29, but your golems aren't even elite skills, lol and ONLY 15 energy for the summon of a boss like ally

icy ground, absolute overpowered ...

elemental skills with aoe damage > elementalist clone, only with other play style that is more like a summoner. You say self they are "BASTARD CHILDRENS FROM ELEMENTALISTS"

That has nothing to do with dervish and their "prayers", its only stupid, that anet called those two attributes wind and earth prayers, those attributes should be called better "Sin Prayers" and "Sorrow Prayers"

then your golems should have attacks that work like skills from blood necros and mesmers oO I observed your CC only in my personal factual style and did come to the opnion simple that the idea of a profession is only a boring mix class, which steals only certain features from other professions and combines them within a new looking kind off profession which will have the gameplay of a summoner.

But for me personal it means more to be a "summoner" in a game, then only controlling golems like huge puppets and to use them as their personal weapons and body shields, what results in the end like a 5 in 1 Class oO

sry but i really think this will have never a chance to get implemented so

PS: it interests me a shit if you want or want not read something again from me, you don't have to tell me anything what I have to do and what not , who do you think you are ?!!! I know, truth hurts

When you can't stand the criticism that your current version of your golem master is total shit, then go home and go crying in your bed and whine about how mean the world is

Do I play ostrich politics, when I got more negative criticism, when i wrote a CC ? No i don't . i try to better my ideas, When someones says, something is overpowered, I'll try to think about how to weaken those mentioned things maybe without making the class direct underpowered. When someone says something about being this or that bad in my CC, for example someone likes an attribute not, because he/she finds it makes the whole idea overpowered, then I try to argue a bit, when then more people share the bad criticism, then I think about how to change the meantioned attribute ...

Do you get it, what i want to say ? Simple try to make it better!! But don't simple say such antisociallly things like:

I don't want to hear it, because most of this hot air comes from the fact that you didn't like my review of your class. So shut it. Anyone with constructive criticism is allowed to speak.

Any criticism is constructive, its only the matter of how you see it. The only thing thats not constructive, is SPAM and my post was surely none.

Hawkeye · Sep 14, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Lol, you've no clue about, what a nonsense you wrote there about me.
Do you really think, because you didn't liked my Occultist CC or my Rogue CC, regardless which one you meant now exactly, that I'm then not factual against you ? I critisized your Golem Master, because its simple a junk mix class out of features which hold still other existing professions.

You could call any melee class a warrior clone or any ranged class a ranger clone. That may be your opinion, but I disagree. There's more to a class than the fact that it does 'fire or cold' damage therefore it must be an elementalist clone. If you disagree to this fact, there couldn't possibly be another class for the fact it would reuse some idea already done, thus some sort of clone of that class.

Quote:

Using massivly overpowered Golems as "weapons" and as personal shields > rangers as beastmasters

The pets of a ranger are not replacement weapons, nor are they personal shields. All pets suck to some extent, and are merely for support as I see it. This class embraces this as THE form of damage as well as defense.

Quote:

magic gauntlets, that are so strong then hammers from the warrior,

Your attack IS the attack of the golem.. Other than the spells you would have the golem cast, that is your only form of attack, and I thought it was understood.. the golem doesn't attack at the rate of a hammer warrior...

Quote:

the elite flesh golem don't even reaches lvl 29, but your golems aren't even elite skills, lol and ONLY 15 energy for the summon of a boss like ally

You're wrong on that.. Flesh Golem reaches level 29 at level 16 death magic. I based myself on that, in fact. I suppose you're right on that.. If you place 16 points in Frost or Fire elemental, you could get a golem that does 19..35 damage.. and it's not even elite! Be realistic.. would you really put in 16 points for that? You'd probably actually equip the spells of the golem for it do be worth the 16 points you placed in it. A level 29 Flesh Golem does far more damage than 19...35, I can guarantee.

Quote:

icy ground, absolute overpowered ...

'Nearby' is a small circle. Running at 70% of your normal speed is not such a big hinderance, and the chance of getting knocked down would likely only effect someone who doesn't have the sense to leave the 'nearby' range of the golem after having casted it. Not to mention if you stood still or were running when this spell was cast, this spell would not even effect you! I don't think it's 'absolute overpowered', sorry...

Quote:

elemental skills with aoe damage > elementalist clone, only with other play style that is more like a summoner. You say self they are "BASTARD CHILDRENS FROM ELEMENTALISTS"

Yes, because they use fire and cold. Having a golem is not very much *like* an elementalist and I'll say it again, having fire and cold does not *make* it anymore an elementalist clone than an assasin is a warrior clone.

Quote:

That has nothing to do with dervish and their "prayers", its only stupid, that anet called those two attributes wind and earth prayers, those attributes should be called better "Sin Prayers" and "Sorrow Prayers"

So you've decided even Anet is wrong. I don't pretend to say Anet has all the answers, but I'm not about to try to make a class which fits your vision, which doesn't even conform to what Anet would accept.

Quote:

then your golems should have attacks that work like skills from blood necros and mesmers oO I observed your CC only in my personal factual style and did come to the opnion simple that the idea of a profession is only a boring mix class, which steals only certain features from other professions and combines them within a new looking kind off profession which will have the gameplay of a summoner.

Some ideas are going to get recycled. It's inevitable. However, I think there is enough idea here to make a very nice class which would hardly be considered 'an elementalist clone' as you say.

Quote:

it interests me a shit if you want or want not read something again from me, you don't have to tell me anything what I have to do and what not , who do you think you are ?!!! I know, truth hurts When you can't stand the criticism that your current version of your golem master is total shit, then go home and go crying in your bed and whine about how mean the world is

I don't think the point is that I can't take the truth as much as it is the fact that you can't play fetch with a dog without throwing the ball in its face and then yelling at him afterwards when the dog looks at you with hurt eyes. There are ways you could have given me advice on this class without ripping it to shreds and spitting on it. In fact, I think the number of ways that this would have been possible greatly outnumbers the number of ways you actually succeeded in criticizing this post. And when I ask myself why you would be purposefully vicious to attack my idea rather than just tell me to improve it and tell me the ways in which I could improve it, I can only come to the conclusion that you have some sort of vendetta towards me.

If you have a problem with me, I really couldn't care less. Though I didn't think the idea was so bad that you thought I should have printed it out on a piece of paper, crumpled it up into a ball, and then piss on it out of spite for having to ruin a perfectly good piece of paper with that idea printed on it. Perhaps you can't even see the value of the idea because of who is writing it. I refuse to believe an idea is so bad that it cannot be revised and fixed, and you insist it is, more or less.

Quote:

Any criticism is constructive, its only the matter of how you see it. The only thing thats not constructive, is SPAM and my post was surely none.

I think we have a difference of opinion then. At least this time around, you managed to tell me the weak points of the build rather than telling me to pull my head out of my ass because I can't see the keyboard...

System_Crush · Sep 14, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

You're wrong on that.. Flesh Golem reaches level 29 at level 16 death magic.

No its 26 at 16 GuildWiki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

16 points in Frost or Fire elemental, you could get a golem that does 19..35 damage..

a 19-35 weapon at attribute 12 does 19-35 damage, at attribute level 16 it does 21.83-40.2 damage.(from GWGuru weapon calculators)
But that is indeed the same as a hammer warrior does at that attribute level, however it is elemental damage by default and elemental damage is better at getting through armor then physical is(though not always, such as by ranger armor for example)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

You'd probably actually equip the spells of the golem for it do be worth the 16 points you placed in it.

It's not like you've shown us any skills that I'd rather put in my bar than the golem damage boosts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

A level 29 Flesh Golem does far more damage than 19...35, I can guarantee.

Flesh Golems deal blunt damage.
Against a 60 AL foe, level 26 Flesh Golems do 58-135 damage, including critical hits. The critical hit rate and specific critical and non-critical damage ranges are currently unknown.
Flesh Golems attack roughly once every 3.17 seconds (30 attacks in 95 seconds).
GWWiki
You have not provided a re-swing time in your OP, so I will calculate against hammer. (I lost the paper I used for my own formula, so I'm using GuruCalc instead)
Hammer
Attack Rate: 0.57
Average Attack Damage: 31.5 (+35% 42.52)
Average DPS: 18 (+35% 24.3)
Important: do not forget that your gauntlets also get a +20% customization bonus and a +15% conditional damage bonus, fleshy's get no such thing.

Fleshy
A flesy re-swings in 3.17 seconds that is 134.814814% slower than the 1.35 of a hammer, so I will run the calculations with fleshy damage at -134.814 attack speed from a hammer with the damage of min:58 - max:67.5(my scythe crits are double its max damage so I hope fleshy crits have the same rule)
Attack Rate: 0.24
Average Attack Damage: 69.29
Average DPS: 16.86!!!!!!!
Fleshy damage sucks because of the attack rate, this is a fact we necro's figured out a long time ago, I use him as a tank for soloing, because they do have a lot of AL.
(the above is based on somewhat questionable variables, but a difference of 24.3 vs. 16,86 should remain substantial even if the values are corrected)

Quote:

Icy Ground - (10 energy, 2 sec cast, 30 recharge) Ice golem attack. For 20 seconds, all nearby enemies near ice golem which run from a rested position on icy ground will move 30% slower and have a 10..30% chance to be knocked down every second. (Frost Elemental)

It's a little over the top, just make it knockdown only moving foes, that makes it more plausible as well as more balanced.
Also making it affect the location the golem at when activated instead of the area around the golem for 20 seconds.
It affects rested position foes only, so I guess it isn't that much of a anti-chasing skill anyway.
(not relevant to the effect of the skill; but why is it a golem attack? its not like the golem uses it on a target.)

Quote:

Ice Soul - (10 energy, 1 sec cast, 30 recharge) Elite ice golem stance. For 6...12 seconds, whenever ice golem makes a successful hit, you steal 3...5 energy from struck enemy. (Frost Elemental)

In order for this to be balanced the golem would have to attack slower than a fleshy, in the 12 second duration you'd be able to zero any non caster's energy.

Quote:

Fire Soul - (10 energy, 1 sec cast, 30 recharge) Elite fire golem stance. For 6...12 seconds, whenever fire golem makes a successful hit, you steal 20...40 life from struck enemy. (Fire Elemental)

Life stealing counts as armor ignoring bonus damage, in 12 seconds you'd attack at least 6 times dealing 240 armor ignoring damage and being healed for 240, while for an elite with 30 sec recharge the heal would be acceptable if that was the only effect, the damage would have to be much less; but this skill offers damage and healing combined, that means both effects should be half of what they would be alone, to balance them.

Quote:

Hits caused by Ice Golem reduce movement of enemy by 10%...50%.
Summon Fire Golem - (15 energy, 2 sec cast, 60 recharge) Summon level 5..29 fire golem. You can have only one golem in play. Hits caused by Fire Golem have a 10%...50% chance of setting them on fire (Fire Elemental).

In fact all skills you gave are kinda overpowered.
(by the way you should provide a duration, otherwise it is assumed the effect is permanent)

By the skill names and the look feel and lore of the current attributes it is indeed a little ele like, you took:
cold = damage and slowing and other hindering(No hexes but that could be likely)
fire = damage and more damage by using the burning condition
That is the elementalist path.
The Death magic's direct damage spells also deal primarily cold damage.
BUT! cold = damage + damage conditional on targets health and more damage by using poison
Wind prayers from the dervish also deals cold damage, but:
cold = damage + damage conditional on enchantments

That is why it's ele like, your cold damage attribute does the same as the ele cold damage attribute, and the same goes for your fire damage attribute.
Change that and it will be much less ele like, how about fire = damage + condition and hex removal on team? Cleansed by fire stuff you know, and reflect that more religious like look on fire, instead of the 'scientific' outlook on it.

For a third attribute how about a Bog(swamp) elemental, its function being:
earth = damage + more damage by using disease + annoying conditions(weakness, cracked armor, hexes for additional damage if bleeding enz.)

The 4th attribute would be a primary that does not summon a type of golem, though I have no direct idea of what it should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Out of ideas ? Does brainstorming don't help you anymore ?

If u'r in that mood that you must absolutely be a b*tch don't post, plz.
Still if you absolutely must, there's other forums where they do that all the time and are more acceptant of mean trolling, or you could go to the Dungeon Siege I or II chat it seems to be especially for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I can only come to the conclusion that you have some sort of vendetta towards me.

Don't feed the troll!
The more you feed them the harder they will try to be obnoctious, one of the basics of forum'ing, you just happened to have to learn it the hard way cause it doesn't happen that much on the guru forums.

P.S. I'm actually a(the) troll on the Dun3 forums, I've had at least 3 ban threats from the moderators.
It was quite a while until 'D' noticed my signature reffered to him as gay.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Sep 14, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Just off the Topic^^.
Which is better my Avatar(Summoner) or Pheonix's Soul Caller^^?
And I think a Profession with 2 Words in their name is bad.
Soul Caller sounds a bit more of a Rit also.

Phoenix Tears · Sep 15, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

Just off the Topic^^.
Which is better my Avatar(Summoner) or Pheonix's Soul Caller^^?
And I think a Profession with 2 Words in their name is bad.
Soul Caller sounds a bit more of a Rit also.

lol, thats only the problem for English XD on first sight, translated on german its 1 word XD

Soulcaller looks much dumber, as Soul Caller, the short form of it would be simple "S" or "So", but cause GW has no class yet that starts with "S" that will be then their shortcut. Shortcuts are for each language so or so different.

While warriors have in English the shortcut "W", in german its "K" for translated Krieger, while we have in german "W" for Waldläufer, what is translated for english the Ranger what is for english "R" what is for us again the Ritualist.
You see, its regardless of a class name has now ponly 1 word or 2, important are only the shortcuts for each language of GW.
There mayn't exist more then 1 of the same shortcuts for classes per language, or it will be only irritating when you see then something like this:

"R/R" or A/A, because on first sight you can't see then, whats the primary of the character, unless you see the character's appearence and see for yourself, what the character is as primary. I think, thats understandable ^^
========

Soul Callers are no Ritualists, Souls are no Ghosts, neither Spirits of the ranger. Souls are the personal Life Forces of any creature, when you destroy someone others soul - "Soul Crush" called, you kill the person and the one that u had crushed his soul will become a mindless body which can be easily manipulated. Ritualists make connections to Ghosts and make via rituals a bonding with the ghost.
The SC makes no rituals, he just uses the collected souls within his body to transform them into Soul Energy, which he can use then to make as said a connection to an other dimension - the box of pandora, the demon dimension.
Soul Energy is different from the normal magical energy every class has, because soul energy is the pure source of life.
Soul Callers in this way, we can say manipulate the force of life with Soul Energy to bring life from an other dimension to their own.
Hmm, theoretically a good reason why we could say, the god of SC's will be Dwayna and not Grenth, like its the god of necromancers and ritualists.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Sep 15, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

And I didn't know abut the Soulcaller thing^^.
But I still disagree with 2 words in name.
Why not Summoner, Herald, Harbringer or etc.
Cause Soulcaller might be a nice name for something like Seaguard, Treesinger, Warmaster and etc.
But not for a Prof.
And I think naming the Rit as a Shaman would sound better^^.
Just in my opinion it'll be nicer.
And Rits have some skills which have souls in their name.
Soul Twisting, Rupture Soul, Feast of Souls, Clamor of Souls.
And I also think Soul, Ghost and Spirit are all same.
Well I think Soul is what gives life to our Body, Spirit is the Connection between us and God and Ghost are wandering Spirits who havent reached God or Heaven for reasons. And the Poltergeist is an Angry Spirit or Ghost.
Or I might be wrong, Hey I am still a kid^^.
But I dn't think thats an excuse.

Phoenix Tears · Sep 15, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

hmm, theoretically we could call the Soul Caller > Animamancer

Anima/Animus/Animi is the latin word for soul ..., would be 1 word and would be euivalent to the Necromancer XD.
Shortcut would be then > An

[M]agna_[C]arta · Sep 15, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Thats better^^.
And hearing it sounds intreasting^^.
Reminds me of Anima in FFX.

System_Crush · Sep 15, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

While its been proven that Phoenix Tears's Soul Caller/Animamancer is more balance-able then a tanker pet(2Moons vs. Anarchy Online, for test running the types)
And allows for a very interesting play style, I plainly like the play style the golem master more, though it still need a heap of work to perfect that play style.
And for both, I prefer to have some kind of unifying theme over the summons, to show that they belong together and to the summoner.

I don't really know why gremlins dryders and roaring aethers would have that binds them together and I don't think they'd wan't to be summoned.
Except for the roaring aether which are kind of a animated armor or just pure energy inside an armor, and actually very functional as a summoned creature. Because they aren't born so you can creature your own roaring aether every time you summon one, and it'd have to listen to you.

Traditionally(in other games) summons tend to be weak minded creatures; animals, beasts, insects, and undead; usually too weak minded to use some type of magic for their own.
Or magically animated creatures, elementals, golems, undead, mythical creatures. That have a bit better chance to be able to use magic, because even if they can think for themselves, their master just has to stop magically animating them to stop them form disobeying.

In order to break this tradition, you will need to be overly complicated with the summoners lore, in order to explain a way they keep their summons in check that does not run down to simply mind controlling them('cuz then what stopping you from mind controlling foes?)
Although the summoning of illusions of said beasties is a quite simple way to take care of that problem; but inturn, I'm not sure if an illusion can 'really' use magic.

Also Hawkeye you could take the class off of the straight elemental track, and make golems based on some advantage they have instead of an element, the golems would them be less elemental but animated from the environment.
In the mountains all golems you'd create would be stone golems, in the jade sea they would all be jade armors and so on. player golems would of course all be restyled to look better and have a lower polygon count to reduce lagg.
But weather made of stone or metal a golems would only be slightly different from one another stat wise. Depending on the skill used to summon them they differ from each other, so instead of the 10...50% slow & burn you have now, you'd have... an armored one and one that has higher attack speed?(don't pin me on it, I just can't think of anything better right now)

And because Anet, although less with prophesies
(because they didn't want to introduce something the player's weren't ready for yet; it was a marketing choice)
Anet hates making stereotypical classes, lets give the golem master skills to wear his golem, like a empowering armor. Balanced right the golem master would be in his golem like 50% of the time, it definitely scratches some of the stereotypical summoner.

there's my 2 cents, I yap to much I know.

Phoenix Tears · Sep 16, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

hmm, it were just only examples, naturally we can take for summons something totaly different.
I personally think of a summoner in GW, that should be able to summon much kinds of monsters of the GW world, that exist in the game.
would be way 1 imo.
Way 2 would be totally unique creatures, that only this class can summon, resulting in powerful beasts or demons, however, that are all in the end elite-skills, but as elite skills they would kill the "Chaos Legion Style", because ur then not able to change very quick between ur summons, because then would be al summons elite and you can only take 1 with you T.T

Or we simple make them powerful, but not elite skills, but then the Soul Energy System needs a change to compensate that, so that nothing becomes with the summon system imbalanced, i#ve there something in my mind, but i must sleep over it .. XD maybe tomorrow i get then the "great Ahhhhh effect" ^^

summoners are really a matter of taste, i like it more, when they are really active and don't act so much like puppeteers which command only their summons around XD, thats why i think, THE summoner, that maybe will exist in GW2 later, should be able to transform themself into powerful beasts too.
With Demon Legion-System or Soul Fusion, my Animancer would combine all 3 things like a Surprise Egg XD

- Quick Melee Fighter
- Passive Summoning Fights (ur summons do all the shit for you, while u keep them healing/buffing and vice versa when you activate their unique hidden powers throiugh "Soul Force"
- Active Summoning Fights as Soul Fusion Beasts like the mentioned Cerberus (dervishlike transform which gives you more skills so higher your attribute is)

Why Roaring Ethers fit as summon: because they look like Demon Beasts.
Animamancer Summs should be demons, then the game would have for everything its own summoner.

undeads: necromancer
ghosts: ritualist
demons: animamancer
nature spirits: ranger

theoretically there would miss now then only the elementalist with skills for summoning elementals *djinns, golems, elemental spirits*^^

and everything about summons would be complete

Phoenix Tears · Sep 17, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

sry for dopple post, want only to say, that I took out my "Animamancer" stuff out of this thread to put it now in an own one XD

Hawkeye · Sep 20, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Well thank you for all the helpful critique. You definitely made some good points. I like the idea of making golems depending on the environment, but in practicality, that would be a little difficult for Anet to have to make models for every 'area type' for each golem. Not that it isn't a good idea, but it would be much harder for Anet to do.

When I said 19-35 damage, I honestly only meant 19-35 damage, at least to start. The damage would reflect the damage in your own weapon.

I was trying to go for a more active golem master. I wanted there to be this sort of parallelism between you and the golem, whereby activating spells would be 'cast' from the golem instead of yourself. And fire soul, you can understand first and foremost that it is elite, so it will provide nice attributes. However, a slow-moving golem will not likely do much versus a warrior who has realized it has taken a bit too much damage, therefore runs away. The 19-35 will be affected by armor, so the total damage per hit won't really be more than 60 (20 + 40 from life leech) on a good hit from a slow-attacking golem.

I'll rethink this and post. I'll try for new attributes entirely away from elementalist. It'll be tricky, since thinking of something original might be difficult.

System_Crush · Sep 20, 2007, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Not that it isn't a good idea, but it would be much harder for Anet to do..

Well I'm not sure, they would have to rehash the current golem models to low polygon versions anyway, so they won't cause lagg when there's 8 golem masters in a group;
resulting in 3 or 4 golem models specifically for the class, probably beautified a little
(like the difference between ring of fire flesh golems and the flesh golem from the skill)

Now we would need at least

a stone/rock golem
a wooden/plant golem
a ice/crystal golem
a sand/snow golem
a clutter golem(for in places like Kaineng and Gandara as those lack in the presence of good elemental materials)

That is only 1 or 2 models more work for Anet then predefined elementals would be, as areas always contains some type of stone or sand or vegetation, long as a specific material is represented enough to always be in earshot wherever you are in that area, then you have the material all golems in that area will be made out of(for the few areas that are an exception to that you use the clutter golem).

To make them even more realistic I'd do 2 things.
First, when creating a golem, the animation shows parts flying in form afar, like the firestorm animation also comes form up high, usually not visible where the sprites come form; that way the materials for your golem are never not there, as you fetched them yourself.

Second, models and textures are separate objects, the ice/crystal golem model could for example be the jade sea golem(using a blueish like golem texture) and when in certain parts of the ring of fire the same golem gets a dark purple texture, for the stuff Mursaat fortresses are made out of.
And again be used in the dragons lair of which the entire roof is made out of rainbow colored crystal.
By applying already existing textures to the golem, Anet doesn't even have to make new textures, they just need to write some method to auto align textures to not look horribly stretched on the golem.

There by a golem would never look out of place, because each area has a reference to the model to use and a reference to the texture to use.
That's 2 variables added to each area, and 2 getter methods to the area class/scripts.

It would not be much harder, only a little more work.
From what I've seen so far, Anet either has a few really, really good model and texture people that they work beyond the limits allowed by human rights.
Or they have a big team of exelent model and texture people that have plenty of time on their hands; as they seem to outdo the area design of almost every other game.
Either way a little more work wouldn't kill anyone.

Hawkeye · Sep 20, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Updated the skill attributes. I still have to change the description though.